Sunday, April 20, 2008

The Rating Blog - How to Game Your Stats

I have made no secret of the fact that before I started this blog I delved into all sorts of black hat methods of making money online. I had fully intended on using those methods with this blog as well. My plan was simple - I would use some of my tricks to get myself ranked well in the serp's for all sorts of affiliate products and make a killing. (In the end I didn't BTW) For a quick history on Google's war with the Black Hatters see Google vs The Black Hats

Somewhere along the line I got sidetracked. I quite unexpectedly started getting readers - real people asking me questions. This threw me off a bit. It's one thing for the conscience to slap up a page of links and collect commissions off of a nameless click. It's another thing to make money off of "Bob" who has sent me an email asking for my opinion on the product I am flogging. At least to me it is. It turns out that Bob is down to his last dime, out of work, heard you can make money online and is willing to buy the product on my page if I say it's a good deal. He trusts me. Oh man...

The "Bobs" got to me. Instead of telling Bob to buy all the crap on my pages I decided to tell him about SEO instead. What the hell. If he wanted fish I'd teach him how to fish instead of buying the fish. And that is how this blog has developed.

If you are new here then you should also know that I am not a fan of chasing readers. Social blogging is fine if you want to be a social blogger but if you think you can make a living online by gaining readers you are sorely mistaken. Your readers are the Bobs of this world and if you treat them with contempt and sell them crap you will not have them as readers or friends for long.

Aside from myself and a handful of others like Vic and Court the vast majority of MMO blogs (make money online) are proponents of selling crap to readers. Almost none of them have the slightest concept of what SEO (search engine optimization) is about or how to do it. 99% of these blogs don't make money, flog the same crap as everyone else, constantly offer advice on how to gain readers in order to make money (which it doesn't) and base their success, not on how much money they make but on how many RSS readers they have or what their Alexa rank is. Alexa btw, is just a poor gauge of traffic based mostly on how many bloggers you have visiting your site - it doesn't track search engine visitors. If you are reading this then you are probably another blogger and realize that you don't spend money on the blogs you read. You are after information. Search traffic does spend money - they are regular civilians looking for something in particular and are willing to spend money to get it.

The little money made from these social traffic chasing MMO blogs comes from getting other bloggers to sign up for yet another affiliate program that is sure to make them rich. How many of you are rich yet? Some of the better known blogs get paid to promote these get rich quick programs and the herd of loyal readers quickly sign up and then begin trying to sign up their own little herd and it dies out when the lowest blogger on the ladder has no one left to sign up. Oh - nobody made money "using" the get rich program (it doesn't work of course) but everyone made a buck or two signing up the noobs below them. This of course just reinforces the belief that if you can become the top sheep herder then you can make more money by getting more people to sign up under you for a program that doesn't work. You might also get paid directly for promoting the crap from the creator of the crap if you become famous.

This is the current model prevalent in the make money online niche. A handful of people (collectively know as the A List) occupy the top rung of the ladder based on just two factors. Their RSS feed count and their Alexa ranking. Do any of them tell you how you can make a living online other than by duplicating them. No. They simply insinuate that the way to riches is by becoming famous like them and you do this by getting more readers than everyone else. Does it work? Yes... for them. Does it work for you while you are trying to get to the top? No. This means that you will not make a dime for ages until you reach the top. 99% of you wont make the top and will never make money online following this model. The thing is human nature, being what it is, tends to convince us that we are "special" and while the rest wont be able to succeed, "I" am different and "I" will make it. Sure you will... in 6 months or a year from now when you are tired of starving and still want to make a go of it (most will just quit and go back to the 9-5) come back and visit me and learn what you could have done instead of wasting all that time chasing a dream.

Now let's tie all this together.

One member of the A List isn't like the others. His name is John Chow. He has a huge fan base who think the sun set's on him - actually it does - he lives in Vancouver. He is different from the other A listers in the fact that he became well known by using blackhat methods to game his way to the top. He doesn't now and probably never did provide useful posts for helping others learn how to build a solid income producing blog or website.

He got his name out "there" by gaming "Digg", a social network. Then he gamed Technorati, a blog search engine. Then he tried gaming Google, the only search engine that matters. He got banned and slapped by all three but not before he made a name for himself and managed to create the prerequisite large RSS feed subscribers and Alexa ranking. From that point on he has made a living being paid to flog crap to his loyal herd of sheep - none of whom have made any money signing up for the crap he promotes. BTW - you can't use the same blackhat methods to game the systems as he did - he got caught and measures were taken to prevent his methods from being duplicated. I said he was effective at black-hat, I didn't say he was good at it though. A good black-hatter doesn't get caught.

I had a troll in my comments recently who seemed to take exception to the fact that I don't care for the John Chow's of the MMO niche. The troll seemed to think I must be jealous. The troll, obviously, has never bothered to read this blog. My methods and John Chow's methods are diametrically opposed. My methods can be duplicated by anyone. His can't - not even by him. He is a one hit wonder. I have hundreds of blogs ranked and making money all over the net. I wont show you them as I'm not stupid - you can ask yourself this though - if I can rank this free blog on page 1 for "make money online" and dozens of other related keywords, what are the chances that I can't do the same for any other niche that has a fraction of the competition? The irony is that someone asked John Chow to duplicate his success with a new site.

April from Of Scotland brought this little challenge to my attention. It seems that someone asked John Chow to prove himself by taking a new blog and becoming a somebody with it. See From Nobody to Somebody Part 1. He was going to show his readers how he could start an anonymous blog and turn it into a hit. The comments seemed to agree that a blog making 3k a month would constitute a hit. The challenge began on Aug 7, 2007. It has been over 8 months now and there has been no "Part 2" - the part where John reveals how capable he is at creating a new successful blog. Moreover he has refused to answer questions about this topic on his blog and none of his current readers seem to know anything about it. see my comment on this post, yet another paid endorsement for another product nobody needs.

I want to draw your attention to two sections of his "From Nobody to Somebody" post.






He turned it into a "make money online" blog because he is an "authority" on it.

Really... as an authority you would think he could have duplicated his success then? Of course if he only became famous by gaming the system and he can no longer game it then one might expect him to fail at duplicating his success...

Damn. I wish I had known that you couldn't create a brand and make money online using blogspot BEFORE I went out and used blogspot to creat more search traffic than all the A List combined in the make money online niche. Stupid me. Ah but I'm no authority - John is.

For those of you who might be thinking that I am picking on John Chow because I am looking for attention then you should know this. I don't give a damn about accumulating readers. I enjoy having readers but they don't make me money and I don't do a thing to encourage people to become readers unless they wish to learn about SEO. My intentions are quite simply to inform the readers I do have that following the methods promoted by the A list is a time consuming and ultimately worthless exercise. I am using John Chow as an example because he can't duplicate his own success so how are you going to? I have on occasion shown my readers other sites of mine that duplicate my success and I tell them how to do it themselves, free of charge and they don't need to spend money on affiliate crap to do it. I show them how I make money doing this and it isn't by taking their money. I make money regardless of having a single person read this post. I use search engine traffic. You can too and skip all the time consuming crap needed to build up a readership which is worthless anyway. (From a monetary standpoint only - I love my readers and have made many friends and this is definitely not worthless)

I do have a second reason for exposing Chow though. He promotes stuff that people don't need as well as deceptive things that can hurt the unwary. A recent post of his promotes Joel Comm's Adsense Secrets 4 and misleads his readers by telling them that it only costs $9.95.



I suppose his readers think he is an Adsense expert as well. I wonder if they notice that he doesn't use it on his blog. I wonder if they know that it doesn't work if you don't have search traffic. RSS subscribers aka readers don't click adsense ads. Chow knows this though - he doesn't use it because he has no search traffic.

As for the deception - read Mark's post on 45n5. Adsense Secrets Scam Alert

For those looking for a Review of Joel Comm's Adsense Secrets 4 see Simonne's post What Joel Never Told You About Making Money With Adsense.

Am I looking for attention or just trying to help people out?

Nuff said.

Now while I am picking on people to make a point I want to introduce you to a guy that epitomizes everything you should avoid doing. The fellows name is Alan Johnson and he is a full fledged follower of John Chow's road to not making a dime. His blog is called "The Rating Blog" and he is busy guest posting on every A list blog that will let him. His method is simple - he thinks by getting his name out there he will get a mass following and then he can call himself an expert at making money online too. What he can't do is write anything other than fluff and has no expertise so he has resorted to the next best thing - fake it till you make it. In other words he has resorted to gaming the system like Chow did and he has chosen to do it with Feedburner.

You can read the whole ass kissin' post here.



This is pretty impressive folks. A rank amature amassing 4300 RSS subscribers in only 4 months.



Granted Alexa has just slapped everyone in the MMO, Tech and Blogging niches rankings by discounting the visits to these sites by toolbar users. These sectors have always had an unusually high number of toolbar savy users and as a result blogs in these niches have always had a disproportionately high ranking compared to other niches. The new rankings are no more accurate than the old as Alexa still can't measure search traffic but they have at least stopped showing these niches as being dominant which they are not. Several of my sites get a lot more traffic than this site and still rank in the millions on Alexa. They get 95% search traffic though.

The point here is that Alan should at least be showing a much better Alexa ranking given his RSS subscribers. The reason is as follows. General search traffic don't often subscribe to RSS feeds. The people who subscribe to RSS feeds tend to be knowledgeable about blogging. They know what a feed is. These kind of people also tend to know about the Alexa toolbar and have it installed on their browser. Ergo, if you have a lot of feedreaders you probably have a lot of Alexa toolbar users. If you get a lot of toolbar users you will have a lower (better) Alexa rank. Alan's rank does not reflect his RSS feed numbers.

How could this be? Well one theory might be that all his feedreaders are complete noobs who found him while searching on Google. They don't know about the toolbar yet but were so taken by his brilliance that they learned about RSS feeds and signed up. Of course to find him on the search engines he would have to rank for something that gets a lot of searches. Since he claims to be a MMO blog then he must rank for a highly searched MMO keyword. Ooops... guess what. He doesn't rank for anything - popular or not. Squash that theory.

Maybe none of his readers ever bother to come to his site and read anything. Possible and it would explain him having only 11 comments. (Only 5 of which have a URL to another blog, 1 a scrapers trackback and 5 anonymmous comments written by him perhaps?). It does make you wonder why 4300 people would subscribe to a blog and then never visit.

Let's look at a little tool available for everyone to use.

It's called Feed Analysis.

It's a cool little resource - try it on your own feed.

If I enter my feed in the tool I can get some data about my feed like this.





Let's look at Vic's Feed stats from Blogger Unleashed. He has had a huge rise in subscribers over the last month.





Now my current stats look like this.



and Vic's Stats



Now let's look at The Rating Blog's Stats.





The fact is it is statistically impossible to be showing the results he shows. Can any of you show me a legit site that gets more subscribers than hits to the feed? Do any of you have 95% of your readers using one aggregator?

I'm not the first to point out this sham. See The University Kids post The Industries Fastest Growing Blog - The Industries Biggest Lie? Unfortunately his server was down at the time of this posting so you may have to try back later. Pay particular attention to the comments where Alan Johnson tries to explain himself and Vic's quick work in exposing his poor defense.

Am I picking on this guy just for the fun of it? No. The fact is he is spouting all sorts of crap on his blog that will hurt those who follow his advice (like using PPP and TLA among other crap) and he talks the talk like he actually has some expertise in this niche. Talk about fooling yourself. Btw Frank at Optempo.com wrote a six part series on Social Blogging and talks about how you can game your feed stats. See the Secret Guide to Social Blogging Success Part iii

I have little doubt that Alan Johnson will show up on sitepoint one day flogging his blog as a huge success and will convince some noob to part with some big dollars in order to buy The Rating Blog. This sham was discussed in my previous article What is a Blog Really Worth? and I'd hate to see another noob taken in by a worthless blog. Should this post just happen to rank well in the serp's for the term The Rating Blog then such a noob may well be warned.

My apologies to my regular readers who have heard all this before. This post is for the thousands of visitors I get daily from the search engines. Most of you are just starting out and wondering how to make money online. You found me because of the keyword you typed into Google. The fact that I was on the page that Google listed is because of Search Engine Optimization. If my blog had been plastered with affiliate links and ads then I probably would have made a few dollars from you all. I haven't done that and have just given you a lesson in how to make money online. Get your site listed on page 1 on Google for any niche that has a product to sell and you will make money online. Stay away from selling crap to other bloggers - this is the stuff you will find in the make money online niche and if you follow the John Chow method then you will not succeed. You didn't find his blog when you typed in your search query did you? You found me and that's all the proof you need that I know what I'm talking about.

I wish you all the best.

Griz

126 comments:

Angrycat said...

Great post, must have taken you some time!

I used to read John Chow, once upon a time there were some interesting articles... how did I find JC... Google, before he got slapped.

I stopped reading that site well over a year ago, by which time it was already "snakeoil city".

I did remember reading that he said it did not matter that he got slapped as he had traffic from blogs...

My thoughts at the time were that once he had ripped off his fan base, they would leave, and without G he would not be able to replace them.

TBH I dont think that is true and he is still going strong, I can only assume he has some very loyal "suckers for punishment", or, the blogsphre continue to feed fresh recruits into the "Chow sausage machine"...

I agree 100%, there is a big difference between selling stuff of an anonymouse page, and presonally endorsing stuff off a blog...

DB said...

Griz,

Totally true. The first I heard of Alan Johnson and typed in theratingsblog.com on my browser, it came back with nothing. Got me confused and then I realized that I had typed it with an extra 's' as in theratingsblog.com. If I made that mistake I figured so will other people, afterall he claimed 50,000 page views at that time. So anyway I registered theratingsblog.com to see for any misspelled traffic. Nothing, nada, zip. I even removed it from my stats. I wish I hadn't or else I could have posted it.

Steve McGrath said...

About John Chow "new blog project":

I recently left a comment but I never been answered. I even linked to the that post you mentioned. Now, he may be waiting for the 1 year anniversary to show his stats.

Niche Blogging said...

Wow Griz!

Another marathon post, well worth the read!

ADHunt said...

Hey Griz,

I sent you an e-mail about expired domains. I know you're busy, but any thoughts on it?

Denise said...

This post is so stuffed with keywords you should rank well with tons of terms.
Wish I could write long posts like this. There must be some technique to this. I know you are a very busy person with all your businesses and yet you find the time to create a blog empire. Amazing. It makes me feel like I am so lazy, even though I work a 12 hr shift and spend the bulk of my time building blogs,lenses,article writing and so forth.
I really must figure out how to get the most out of my time.

I am grateful for the information you give here. Keep on building Denise.

Back to work.

Elio said...

Griz,
You are truly a force on the rise. Between you and Vic I think a lot of people are thinking twice about posting up junk on the web. I think that one of the main reasons people don't take action when trying to make money is because they don't know who they can trust. I feel more comfortable at least trying something, listening to you and Vic then I ever have. Nobody else explains it, nobody else shows the numbers, nobody else opens your eyes to what really works. I commend you and hope that you continue doing what you do. Thanks!

Ben Willis said...

Hey Griz, Thanks for the advice. Yes, I found you last Nov. with the key words and you were on top. I think that I got lucky that day because I started reading you and was spared the BS of other MMO blogs. It seems to me that Google would like to have you right where you are and some house cleaning may be in order for the BS sites. We could only hope that they put these parasites in their place.
Visit the AdSense help group anytime and you will find a question asking why am I not making any money. Click on the URL that they leave and you will find that their site is a MMO blog loaded down with articles that other people have written. It's halarious. So called experts! Ben

The Rookie said...

"Damn. I wish I had known that you couldn’t create a brand and make money online using blogspot BEFORE I went out and used blogspot to creat more search traffic than all the A List combined in the make money online niche. Stupid me. Ah but I’m no authority - John is."

This is the best quote I have read in a while. Nice research too. I was wondering about that blog's feed readers myself. Something just didn't seem right.

DennisJr said...

Another Great post Griz,

I love your analytical approach to these blogs. Being new to blogging in general, I was wondering how they were analyzed. I guess this is one of the reasons why I am considering giving up project mgt and going on to being an analyst.

Well, gotta pack. I fly out Monday. It'll be interesting reading the 200 comments about this when I get back.

costa said...

Another great one Griz. You said it all.

And Joel Comm took so much heat for the cheeky little scam that he wrote a public apology which turned into another big sales page!! Breeds like him never change I guess. LOL.

Thanks for saying it out, mate.

Frank C said...

Thanks for the link Griz! Spend about $2000 a month for 6 months and you too can be a famous A-List MMO Blogger!

The whole Chow-Yaro school of MMO blogging reminds me so much of MLM, Amway in particular, it's scary. It's like the same old crap in new clothing.

Grizzly Brears said...

AngryCat,

I don't think Chow is doing as good as he says and I mentioned why in a post a while ago. He hasn't mentioned the costs he is incurring using Adwords when posting his "Earnings". Gross is a lot different than Net. He says he doesn't need Google and yet hides the fact that he is using Google Adwords to replace all the free traffic he used to have.

He has to use PPC because he needs search engine traffic. His readers don't click all the ads he is charging people for and they don't bother checking the review me sites either. The only way to keep advertisers is by having traffic click on the ads and this is why he needs the search traffic.

In the end G is laughing - he is now paying them for the traffic he used to get for free. Yup he sure is a genius. He sured showed Google who needed who...

Grizzly Brears said...

DB,

50,000 page views...

hahahahahahahahahahaha... good one!

He'll get more traffic from this post than he has ever seen.

Thanks DB - that was priceless.

Grizzly Brears said...

Steve,

He talks the talk, can't walk the walk and then gets laryngitis when asked to explain.

Wonder what he would do if 800 or so of my readers were to drop in and ask him how his "somebody to nobody" blog is doing - wait did I get that wrong?

Would make an interesting comment section. Or is that "evil?"

Grizzly Brears said...

Elliot (Niche Blogging),

You know me by now. If it's worth writing a short post about then it's worth writing a really long one full of as much content as I can think of. The fact you guys actually read the damn posts always amazes me! lol.

Grizzly Brears said...

ADHunt,

I hate to say it but I can't find the email anywhere. It may have been swept to the spam folder and deleted by accident. I'm truly sorry but send it again and put ADhunt in the subject so I know what to look for.

Thanks and again, sorry about that.

Grizzly Brears said...

Denise,

The trick is to move to an island in the middle of nowhere. Works for me! lol.

You think these posts are long? You should see them before I edit them down to the bare minimum - I don't think I could write a short post if my life depended on it. You should see my six year old when she asks me a question - she usually starts rolling her eyes about 15 minutes into the answer. "Sorry I asked Dad"... Poor kid.

Grizzly Brears said...

Elio,

Thanks for that. You forgot - no one else tells you to leave your wallet in your pants either. I've always found it easier trusting people's advice when they don't have their hand out.

You'll notice Chow's advice about not using Blogspot Blogs was followed with an affiliate link for BlueFur Hosting.

No conflict of interest there - what do you think? Was he more concerned with making a buck or looking after your interest by telling you not to use a free platform?

Oh that's right - no one could possibly make money online using a free blogging platform...

Grizzly Brears said...

Ben,

This whole niche is a joke in my opinion. The model keeps being propagated over and over because there are so many beginners jumping in daily and all they see is the BS.

Once more and more people start speaking out the beginners will start seeing an option that wasn't there before and eventually they will start calling bullshit too. It wont be fast but things are changing.

There is a reason why Vic is the hottest site in MMO - there is a need and he is filling it.

Thanks for popping in Ben - nice to hear from you and hope all is well.

Grizzly Brears said...

Hey Rook,

You liked that huh - Fiar will criticize me for the huge run on sentence but glad you liked it.

What really didn't seem right the first time I saw his site was the fact that his posts are pure fluff and not something that would inspire anyone to subscribe which made me ask - why the hell are there subscribers? And where are the comments? And then I noticed he was offering money in the form of a contest if people subscribed - brilliant! Not. And then when the contest ended everyone unsubscribed but he had already bragged about all his RSS subscribers so he had to go out and game his stats.

What he doesn't seem to know is that you have to game all the stats because one set looks awful silly when the rest don't match.

Grizzly Brears said...

Thanks Dennis,

Hope you make more money being an analyst than I do. lol

Good luck in Denver.

Grizzly Brears said...

Costa,

I didn't follow up on what happened to Joel Comm but figured he would have been roasted pretty good over the whole episode. Doesn't bode well for his reputation in future or all the affiliates who flogged the book either. They might want to read what they are selling next time.

Nice to see you pop in Costa. How's things over at Blogigs these days? Will have to stop in and check on you.

Grizzly Brears said...

Frank,

That about says it all. I can't imagine what this guy has spent trying to buy his way to the top. I'll give him credit as he is not short on work ethic but geez he is missing a huge piece of the puzzle - he doesn't write anything useful.

If people had found him useful, given the amount of posting he has done, he would have a following and he wouldn't be having to fake it.

Sad really.

yc said...

Grizz, check out the new 'controversy' on Joel Comm's new (scam) ebook Adsense secrets. Someone could drop a comment there and say why pay even $9.95 when you can get all the info free here. And the info would actually work.

You will then get more readers!

yc said...

Darren problogger said he -bought- Adsense secrets. Geez.

Stephen said...

Heh,

db, I love that you made the effort to register the misspelled domain and were able to see for yourself the lack of traffic for something that like you said should have had some!
Like you and Griz both said, it says a lot.

Griz, I was going to ask you about John cjow being from my city of Vancouver a few months ago when I saw his name mentioned in a local newspaper article about local dotcom successes, but thought ... 'meh', not something I would really brag about, lol
BTW, I don't remember if your post included a link to your earlier posts about the recent history of marketing including Google's reactions to it? Might be helpful for the new readers of your blog that this post will likely bring in.

-Stephen-

Anonymous said...

I've been reading these sorts of sites for about 4 months now. Having a mathematics/economics background, I was always sort of wondering where the hard data and actual advice was. Most sites are nothing more than numbered lists of common sense items.

I found your site through Vic and it has really changed my thoughts for how I can go about monetizing what I'm doing.

Thanks for the advice,

Gary
Everything-Everywhere.com

Frank C said...

Talk about sad Griz, check out the noob Chow follower at www.shudogg.com. I would have posted something over there directing him to you and Vic but I don't want to get Akismet'ed for the 3rd time by one of these fruit flavored beverage drinkers.

Grizzly Brears said...

YC,

I haven't read Comm's book but if it doesn't explain SEO and the importance of search traffic then it's a waste of time.

Don't you dare leave a comment over there pointing here - you trying to kill me? Like I can keep up with my current email! lol. Actually send them to Vic - he thrives on having way to much on his plate!

Hope all is well YC and I got your email - you think they are big huh?

Grizzly Brears said...

Stephen,

You mean you don't run into Chow while out dining? He's the guy with the camera. lol.

If you can find the post you are referring too please let me know - I personally never go near the dungeon as it's more disorganized than my emails. You're probably right though - I should have a link to it. Maybe Fiar will find it for me - he usually steps in and does the hard work. Gotta love the guy.

Grizzly Brears said...

Gary,

Welcome and glad to hear from you. If you ever need a hand we have a pretty helpful community around this little corner of the blogoshpere. All are welcome to join in.

Love your blog btw, great photos and I'm enjoying you traveling the world doing just about everything on my to-do list. Good for you. We all yak about seeing the world - you are doing it. My deepest respect.

SeanFu said...

Pretty good post there. You were actually #1 in my Google search, but I went back and looked at my keywords (because I was rather impressed) and I had "make money onlin" without the "e". Still none-the-less, a #1 result.

Good job man. :)

Grizzly Brears said...

Sean,

Oh crap you got me all excited there for a sec... lol.

I'm number 2 for "making money onlin" too (no e). I kick ass on misspelling's now if only the real one's would move up just a bit more...

Thanks Sean and thanks for stopping in and getting the heart pumping!

Stephen said...

Okay Griz, I wanted to save you the trouble of going into your dungeon so you could spend the time answering your emails instead ... not.

Here is the post that I was thinking of from November, 2007( sorry if its a bit dusty lol ):

http://makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com/2007/11/google-vs-blackhatters.html

Seanfu said...

@ Grizz

No problem, lol.

When I first read about John Chow a long time ago, I *thought* there was some sort of dispute between him and Darren (Problogger) a couple or more years ago, and that's what got John Chow's site popular. It's been a while, I don't know if my memory is correct or not being that I've been absorbing information left and right for the past few years, some of it gets jumbled lol.

It's true about popularity, once you have it and continue it's forward momentum, you keep getting bigger. John Chow could provide horrid information, yet still continue to grow imo, only a big misshap would screw him over.. or perhaps eventually nature will take it's course and people will tire of him and go to the "next big thing" as what usually happens.

John Tighe said...

Hi Grizz, how’s it going?

Busy times in our little corner of the blogging world. Vic’s making his bid for Hollywood, Courts doing what he does (posting every three minutes), and then there’s you, writing the blogging equivalent of War and Peace.

Another great post, I just hope it takes a few people out of the clutches of John Chow and his mates.

I know what your thinking, if this really is John Tighe, where’s the ten questions? LOL.

Well sorry to disappoint there’s only one. What’s the situation with BS and LV?

Take care, keep up the good work.
All the best - John

yc said...

Grizz, pls don't send my mind any deeper into the gutter...

I do not know if the current version talks about SEO, but I've read earlier versions and other than telling you how to set up the ads in your a/c and the different color suggestions, there was nothing else in it. If he really does make a lot of money from Adsense and he knows how to do it, given that he's flogging ebooks for money and trying to sell subscriptions now, I doubt he'll welcome the extra competition by teaching others SEO. If he was really interested in teaching others how to make money without worrying about competition, he'd do it for free (regardless of the argument about it being fair asking people to pay you for teaching them what you think is good info). Also, I'd be making money from Adsense earlier after reading his ebook, rather than having to 'relearn' it (the actual methods) from guys like you and Vic. I'd like to think I'm decent enough at learning and applying stuff well (as many Asians are with rote learning), but if what I learn does not actually help, I'll face the same problems of not actually making anything.

All is well - one of my main sites got out of the sandbox it seems, after a short stay there. I hope it does not go back in.

Simonne said...

I've read Joel Comm's book and I can say it's a scam. He barely mentions SEO, and there's no useful info in this chapter. Plus, the methods he indicates to get traffic are really hilarious, not to mention that they cannot possibly work, even if that kind of traffic converted well (which is not the case).

The book references resources too old to be valid anymore, like Overture services.

All the AdSense info can be read for free in Google's guidelines, plus some placements that he claims to be good are ineffective, speaking from my experience with AdSense.

aravind said...

Terry,
u mentioned to click the link in the email..........but i didn't recieve any email........
if u r sending any email then send it to this email address.
aravind555@gmail.com

Grizzly Brears said...

Stephen,

You are the Man!

and once again I have proven that if a person is truly lazy others will do the work for them. Lol.

I have added the link in the first paragraph.

Thanks Stephen.

Grizzly Brears said...

Sean,

I have never been a close follower of any of the A List but on the occasions I did bother to see what they were about it always seemed that part of their shtick was having spats among themselves - staged from what I remember but perhaps not. I would of course have to care in order to provide accurate details and I don't so if any of you are expert followers of the A List please set me straight.

Of course you will have to admit you are followers of the A list first... hehe :-) (careful - Vic reads these comments! lol)

Krazzy4 said...

The Alan Johnson guy had been doing guest posts at every other blog ..
See his post at Court's http://courtneytuttle.com/2008/03/05/how-many-online-entrepreneurs-actually-provide-value/ and that is how probably he gained a lot of exposure.

Grizzly Brears said...

John,

I just sent you an email. The forum has been up for a few days now and I must of missed you when sending out the instructions. Sorry about that. If the new email doesn't arrive please let me know.

If anyone else who asked to be involved didn't get the email update please let me know. Just send me a new email with "BS and LV" in the subject line.

The forum is for discussing all sorts of stuff we would rather keep private. If you are new and would like to join in send me an email as per instructions above. The forum is private and you need an invite to get in.

Grizzly Brears said...

Yc,

I have put a link in the post to Simonne's review of Comm's book. If you folks haven't read the review please do before buying. Btw. Simonne and Diana's blog Ez Money On dot Net is a MMO blog that actually tries to help people learn how to make money online. What a concept.

Apmis said...

Nice post! Pretty enlightening for the discerning newbie. I wonder how many would have the patience to really read a post this long. Keep up the good work.

Grizzly Brears said...

Simonne,

Gee, I was just talking about you.

After reading your post I think it's time for

"Grizzly's Adsense Secrets #1" for $0.00

I just have to figure out how to work out the fine print that will indenture anyone who reads it to a life long monthly contribution to my retirement.

Good review Simonne - sounds like the same old same old.

aravind said...

Hi Griz,
I sent u an email regarding the BS and LV
Please update me regarding the Forum.......

Grizzly Brears said...

Aravind,

I seem to have missed you as well. I just sent you the instructions. Please let me know if you didn't receive the email.

Sorry about that.

Grizzly Brears said...

Krazzy4,

I'm not sure, are you suggesting that he actually has 4300 real RSS subscribers?

Grizzly Brears said...

Apmis,

I figure if they don't have the patience to read a long post giving out free info they won't last long in this business anyway.

They can always buy a 70 page ebook for $29.95 that is sure to make them rich overnight. lol.

ADHunt said...

Griz,

I've sent the e-mail again, let me know if you don't receive it this time.

Thanks.

yc said...

Grizz, never thought of buying the book. Never bought it. Earlier versions are free at many places. Not very nice, but rubbish shouldn't cost money anyway. If it was gold, then it's a different story. ;)

Fiar said...

Looks like you wasted a lot of time getting to the first page of google and making only a couple thousand a month with this site. Maybe next time you'll learn your lesson and sign up for blusomethingorother hosting.

Better get your ass over to JohnChow and find out what he had for lunch. Then you'll be on your way

Grizzly Brears said...

ADHunt,

Got it and replied - Terry is expecting your email.

Good luck

Grizzly Brears said...

YC,

That is brilliant - my new get rich quick (for me) Adsense Book will be entitled;

"Grizzly's Adsense Secrets Gold #1"

I'm counting the money already!

It's free but you can all pre-order it for only $9.95. Just use my email with the term "I want to be Fleeced" in the subject line.

:-)

Fiar said...

Dammit Grizz,

If you keep telling it like it is, I'm going to wind up wasting my valuable time writing you a post, and we don't want that to happen. I need to spend that time on building my "empire."

Jason said...

All I can say is great roundup.

TUK is back up, so your readers should be able to check it out. Some of them have DNS issues, just moved after ten days of downtime - gaah.

Venkat said...

Hi Griz,

I found "How to Make Money Online for Beginners" like most of your readers through google and I knew immediately that this is a gold mine. But the thought of digging deep came to me today (I am a slow thinker)and started digging, and man I am right there is gold everywhere.

Your commitment in giving out useful information in lengthy posts about making money remained intact right from the beginning whether there are 100 comments or zero comments.

You may not like it but you are made up of "A-lister" material Griz.

You don't realize how important you are for someone like me working 8 hours a day making $ 450 per month with a 2-year-old daughter looking everywhere to make money not getting cheated (I have credit card).

Thank you.

Grizzly Brears said...

Fiar,

I stay up at night castigating myself over all the nuggets of wisdom I missed by figuring crap out on my own and not reading the A-List...

If only I had known better.

If you mean writing me a post to publish on here then we damn well "DO" want that to happen. Anytime I don't have to work you'll get a thumbs up from me!

If you meant on your site well just be sure you say lots of glowing things about me - you can get some ideas from Alan's post on Chow's blog - Ass Kissin' 101.

For those who don't know, Fiar is planning on dominating the political humor niche and then plans on becoming the Prez of the US of A once the Clinton/Bush dynasties run out of wives and children. Best to make friends with him now as there is tons of money to be made hanging with the Prez.

Grizzly Brears said...

Jason,

Great to hear TUK is back up. For the acronym challenged that would be The University Kid link I mentioned in the post.

Jason - have you heard of blogspot? Hardly ever goes down... lol.

Grizzly Brears said...

Venkat,

Thanks for the vote of confidence even though you used a dirty word (A list - perish the thought.) The anti-A list would be a much more honorable goal.

I am safe as there isn't a chance of a Blogger Blog ever sinking to the depths of the A list.

A credit card huh? Did you notice my new ebook could be pre-ordered?

Vic said...

Grizz I was talking to Bob from the cow.com and he told me John Chow was spending 500 dollars a month on Adwords, I almost fell out my chair. I told Bob the fact is his Adwords expense has to be huge to try to divert search engine traffic but as with most of these scammers we will never know because he only post his supposed income.

Vic

Grizzly Brears said...

Vic,

Considering the keywords he is targeting and how poorly optimized his landing page is - he has a crappy quality score and will be paying top dollar for his ads. He would blow $500 in a day or two.

This is completely aside from the fact that he "doesn't need Google" and yet "still uses Google".


On a side note,

Yes Vic I am trying to get back to you and Justin - just a bit bogged down but I'm comin'...

jtrigsby.com said...

Griz,

As usual, excellent post with not only the truth but the stats to back it up. I'd be interested to see either one of these scammers or any others for that matter, refute anything you said with hard, stats-on-paper proof.

@Angrycat
I think there are two reasons why John Chow keeps his followers running in the hamster wheel:

1. His followers are blind to the truth. They actually have faith in what he says (faith=belief in things unseen). Thankfully there are a growing number of folks like Griz and Vic that are not afraid to call them out on it.

2. They probably have a bit of a self-depredating character that leaves them believing that "if I would have just worked a little bit harder like John said, I could have made more selling this ___. I'll try harder next time!" And they wait anxiously for the next opportunity to "succeed". This is one of the worst aspects of what they do because it leaves the blind follower thinking they did something wrong!

Anyway, there's my 30 cents worth! Thanks again Griz!

Thom

Venkat said...

Hi Griz,

Sorry for using the dirty word A-lister though it is not as dirty for me as I don't read any A-lister.

I used that word in the meaning of a successful blogger.

Thank you once again.

Trent Brownrigg said...

Another killer post Griz. Your posts are always top notch.

You are right... anyone who follows you will make money online and those who follow people like Chow or Johnson will fail miserably.

I've been internet marketing for 5 years now and have learned more from you in the past few months than I did in all those years before.

Keep it up buddy!

Trent

Grizzly Brears said...

Thom,

I'd add a third reason to your list - most probably don't know there is any other way as all they see is clone sites from one end of the niche to the other.

They just naturally gravitate to the source. Shit flows down hill but this only means it starts at the top.

Thanks Thom - hows the Magnet coming - haven't had time to check. Do we need a few more links?

Grizzly Brears said...

Venkat,

No worries as I knew what you meant - I was just pulling your chain with my bad sense of humor.

Appreciate the compliment.

Grizzly Brears said...

Trent,

Hey my friend how are things going? I hope all is well. Thanks for the endorsement, coming from you that means a great deal.

I did stop in at the Whydowork forum to stir up some shit but figured I'd lay low for a bit. All those EDCgold scammers get pretty upset when you call them out! lol

Great hearing from you Trent.

Carla @ WordPlay said...

We're going to have to get you a cape, a mask and a theme song. "Captain Grizzly, Defender of Newbie Bloggers Everywhere!"

Thank goodness you're being so outspoken. With each post you make it harder for people to rip off new bloggers.

I have a question for you that's somewhat related: I know search engine traffic is where it's at as far as making money, but do you think social media traffic has any bearing on that traffic? The reason I'm asking is because I read some "experts" say that because Google has access to such far-reaching stats, there's a possibility that they factor the actual traffic you receive (no matter the source) into their assessment of whether a site/blog is popular. This in turn would affect how they rank you.

I know no one really knows how Google does things, but I wondered if you have an opinion on this.

Grizzly Brears said...

Hi Carla,

For those who don't know Carla is a professional writer and Editor so I have to spend hours writing an answer that will pass her scrutiny. I don't want her red lining all my mistakes - very nerve racking. :-)

I have pondered this question myself. The fact is that they, more than anyone else, know who gets the most traffic just by having access to their own search results. Do they know how much stumble traffic a site gets? Or Digg traffic? Or Bookmark Traffic? Hard to say that they would although they probably have a handle on link traffic between sites. The thing is social traffic is so minuscule compared to search traffic that I don't think it would be a major factor in ranking high traffic sites - only low traffic ones.

The real question is do they know that Darren Rowse gets a huge number of visitors from links and RSS feeds. And if they know does this cause them to rank him higher in the serps? He does rank well for a few keywords relating to MMO and Blogging. He by no means dominates the niche though. Other high social traffic sites like Dosh Dosh and Shoemoney don't really rank very well at all compared to the traffic they get from subscribers.

Then a site like mine which doesn't get much traffic at all from social avenues is ranked really high for dozens of terms. Far better rankings than all the high social traffic A-list sites combined.

If I had to give you a non-wishy washy answer my guess is that your popularity doesn't play a role in your serp rankings. If it did the A-list really should be kicking my ass in the serp's and they aren't even close.

This is not conclusive at all and I could certainly be wrong but it does fit with what I see in my niches.

As you said no one really knows what goes on behind Google's doors. They have been known to manually change rankings like John Chow not ranking for his own name. We only know when they do this as a penalty. Have they helped sites they like get better rankings as a reward? Probably but how would we know. In any event all of these kinds of manipulations would certainly be a manual tweak and not something that could be programmed into the machine - or so I'm guessing.

Great question Carla and food for thought. Hope all is well with you and go easy on the errors. :-)

Josh said...

Hey, what you said is true. I am glad that I found blogs like your own and Vic's. Finally people calling the fakes out. JC is a one trick pony. Keep up the good work and I have subscribed.

Grizzly Brears said...

Josh,

Thanks and welcome. We plan on having at least two tricks so you are ahead of the game already.

Nice to have you on board Josh.

ADHunt said...

Griz,

Terry was helpful. Thanks for the recommendation.

rk said...

IF yours and John Chow's posts are 'diametrically opposite', how come there are four solid links to johnchow.com from this POST?

Is this some kind of linking game?

Carla @ WordPlay said...

Not to worry, Captain Grizzly! I'd choose your writing any day over "writers" who don't deliver real information. As we know, there are plenty of them.

And for the record, here's my professional assessment: I've always found your writing accessible and easy to understand. You make complicated topics digestible, which is not an easy thing -- especially since you also invisibly pepper your text with keywords along the way. Those special abilities far outweigh any minor boo-boos you could ever make.

As to my question that you took such great pains to answer, thanks -- and darn! I was hoping you were going to reveal a magic formula for converting Stumblers to search traffic. Now that'd be a product I would buy!

Carla @ WordPlay said...

Hi, Griz.

If I may, I have one more question.

I've been doing a lot of article marketing for my health blog. I discovered by accident that some scrapers just steal the first 10-12 words of a post and leave the rest. (Why? Who knows.) Anyway, as a result, I put a link in the first sentence of each of my articles. After a mad scrape-a-thon that took place over a few days, I found I had tons of incoming links from these crapola bad-neighborhood blogs.

Here's my question: Because my blog is new and has some but not a lot of high-quality incoming links, should I worry about how the ratio of crap-to-good links is going to look to Google? If so, I'm going to take the links out of the articles until I get some higher quality links to balance things out.

Thanks!

April Kerr said...

Thanks for the link Griz. I was seriously surprised not to find any more info about the "challenge" on Chow's site. I'm glad I unsubscribed from his feed long ago!

Grizzly Brears said...

rk,

Is this a trolling game? I see your link doesn't lead to a profile.

Perhaps you should learn the difference between a solid link (do-follow) and a no-follow link.

Go Here;

http://www.quirk.biz/searchstatus/

Download the Searchstatus Extension for Firefox and then in future you will be able to tell a no-follow link from a do-follow link.

Grizzly Brears said...

Carla,

Whew... only some minor boo-boos. I was worried about the major Yogis. What a relief!

Don't worry about the scraper links - you will never be penalized for the links coming into your site. The more the merrier - good or crappy. You only get penalized for the links you have on your site pointing to others. (If they pointed to a bad neighborhood).

If Google penalized people for incoming links we could all start a porn site and send links to all our real niche competition and blow them out of the water.

Let the scrapers help you out although G is likely to ignore most of those links. Can't hurt though.

Grizzly Brears said...

April,

When I found out you were from Scotland I just had to give you a link. My dear departed Grandmother spent 80 of her 93 years in Canada but never lost the brogue and steadfastly called Loch Lomand home her entire life.

You have a few Golf courses I wouldn't mind playing as well...

Vic said...

@Carla

Scrapers are our best friends if you know how to use them ;)


Grizz no problem buddy I told Justin and one of BU readers that we have to dissapeer once in a while just to be able to make some money ;)

Grizzly Brears said...

Vic,

Thanks for understanding. Btw - I have tried to join in on your TV show a few times but it seems to suck all my satellite bandwidth up and I end up with a frozen screen. It sucks as I like the instant response thing you have going on. Alas the pitfalls of living in the bush.

Carla @ WordPlay said...

Hi Griz,

Thanks for the answer. (And thanks to Vic, too, for his comment.) In retrospect that seems like a dumb question. It makes total sense that I wouldn't be held responsible for what others do.

And no, there are no Yogis, so no worries. :-)

Speaking of big bears, today my movie site hit number 7 on G (its first time on page 1) for my main big-money keyword! It went back down to page 2 after a few hours but I'm not concerned. I wasn't expecting it to get that far so quickly because there's massive competition. So I'm quite happy; I know the results will only improve over time.

Thanks for your help. I only got those results because I followed your advice.

Grizzly Brears said...

That's great news Carla.

When you start bouncing back and forth between page 1 and 2 you can take this as a sign that you will be on page 1 fairly soon. I bounced back and forth for about a month before settling down on page 1 for "make money online".

You are doing great and it's so nice to hear. Keep at it and keep me posted.

Anonymous said...

Not only do I read your entire post when they're published, I print them as well.

They make for excellent offline reading and learning material.

Let's see, Between reading both you and Vic's blogs over the past 7days:

1. I've gotten into Ebay's affiliate program within 15 minutes of applying even without my own website at this point.

2. I've gotten my Squidoo lens listed on the 1st page of Google for several keywords including my main keyword phrase.

I attribute these victories to Taking Action where I can based on yours and Vic's recommendations.

At the end of the day, your post no matter how long are well worth reading for my bottom line and for that I thank you sir.

SunshineGirl

living off dividends & passive income said...

man, another post that takes 25 mins to read!!!!

I was wondering where you had disappeared to.

SeanFu said...

@ Grizz

Good heavens, Grizz. Impressive, I leave the night before seeing 34 responses and now you have 88.

I wouldn't say I'm a follower of the A-List. A lot of what they say is the same thing over and over again, just written differently.

To be honest, the way I found Problogger the first time I saw it wasn't because I thought it was a blog. I looked up "Blogger" on Google, and Problogger was right below it (or close to that). I thought to myself.. Hmmm.. must be a 'professional blogging platform' so I'll investigate. Instead I find that it's just someone's blog about professional blogging. Really makes you wonder if Darren Rowse had a different domain name that he would be as popular as he is. Perhaps a lot of others accidently found his site the same way I did.

daniel said...

best blog EVER! :D

you probably get that a lot but i had to say it.
i have been reading your blog and trying to follow along. i have a few questions i was hoping you could answer. so far, i have made this blog www.howumakemoneyonline.blogspot.com
and put an article on goarticles.com linking to it
http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=872596
im sure i probably messed up a few things so i was hoping maybe you could look over them and tell me what, if anything im doing wrong. i am in no way opposed to you tearing them apart or using them in your own work. :D
at the moment...google is telling me i am indexed but there is no data available on crawl stats or anything. my sitemap is submitted but its saying it may take some time for it to be indexed. im guessing my next step(assuming i havent done anything too terribly wrong yet) is to post as many articles as i can linking to my blog. i bought a content generator for this but im kind of afraid to cause i dont want to mess it up and have too much copied content pointing to my blog or something...i get that i need to make the articles original but im no marathon writer. on your blog you said to rewrite the blog using synonyms and post the new copy at goarticles, if you have time to read through mine..it still sounds kinda like a copy. after looking at your article compared to your blog..its just so much better than mine and thats what inspired me to buy the content generator software. im really hoping you can help me get started doing this stuff the right way. as of now all i do on any given day is go to work for 6-8 hours then sit in front of my computer 10-12 hours reading anything and everything i can find on how to get traffic and turn a profit with any kind of online marketing and i have no intention of stopping until i learn to do it myself. of all the crap and sales pitches i have read...finding your blog on page one after doing a google search for how to make money online was just...WOW ..i mean..a blog about how to make money online that explains how that blog got ranked for the keywords...wow. you rock. :D at this point i have no traffic at all and i dont know how to get some. will writing a bunch of articles and posting my link everywhere really get me ranked? not like i can really think of many other options.. do i need to buy backlinks? if you can find some time to look over my stuff and tell me what i need to do/not do to get ranked or give me any info at all i would really really appreciate it.

thanks,
daniel

Jason said...

About Blogspot - I've heard too many horror stories about people getting websites deleted, so wouldn't host anything too big on them. Then again, the problems with Hostican were pretty similar, only difference is that I paid $60 for them.

I will be trying out Blogspot for a few smaller niche sites, as well as Squidoo - just going to test them, see how they rank with x amount of links. We'll see how it goes, will update when I have time.

Re: Alan Johnson - I see posts are going along, but comments aren't. Did you see one of his recent posts? I saw 26 comments and most others will have too, but examine them.

http://www.theratingblog.com/internet-marketing-tips/#comments

Only three genuine ones. A lot of them appear to have hyperlinks but if you hover over them you see stuff like http://nowebsite and even linux.com funnily enough. Food for thought. :)

Frank C said...

Jason,

You can encounter hosting problems anywhere, you just have to know the lay of the land. The problem in Blogger/Blogspot is that it is regularly gamed by blackhatters using automated tools to build massive link farms. The 'bots will disable them quickly but sometimes they'll nail innocent sites that have the same pattern, as I found out recently with my guitar/eBay affiliate blog. Generally you can get your blog back though as long as you're within the rules enough to pass a visual inspection.

On the fake comments, what's funny is that I covered how to properly do "fake it until you make it" comments in my series that Griz linked to. Too bad Alan didn't read my series before he started his blog.

Grizzly Brears said...

Sunshine Girl,

Thanks for the kind words and I hope those page 1 listings are making you a few dollars besides just sitting there looking good. :-)

Grizzly Brears said...

Nirav, (Living off...)

I wish they only took 25 mins to write! lol

Grizzly Brears said...

Sean,

To be fair to Rowse, he has that name for a reason - it's a SEO friendly and effective URL name and unlike the other A listers he does understand SEO and does get some decent search traffic because he ranks well for some terms.

You didn't find his site accidentally - he wanted everybody who types in "Make Money Blogging" or a related long tail to find his site. These are the keywords he has intentionally targeted in order to rank highly for those terms - that is what SEO is all about and it worked - you found him.

People don't accidentally find my site when they type in "make money online" - I planned it that way.

Grizzly Brears said...

Daniel,

First off thanks for the compliment.

Second thanks for asking your question in the comments.

I said thanks because it will allow everyone else who has sent me the exact same requests in my emails to understand why I am hopelessly behind in getting back to everyone. I haven't counted but there is easily over a hundred requests just like yours Daniel in my backlogged "to do" email folder.

I will add you as well but please understand that to research and answer just your request will take an hour or two at least providing you want some useful help. I hate saying this but my time is more limited than ever so please look for a lot of your answers in the archives if you can.

Most of you know the answers but need reassurance and this is understandable but please understand that I am bogged down and will get back to you as soon as I can. It may be weeks though.

Sorry this wasn't the answer you hoped for Daniel but be patient with me.

Grizzly Brears said...

Jason,

Thanks for bringing up the "Blogspot" issue and don't take this the wrong way.

The fact is that every time someone writes a post telling others why wordpress is the only way to go when creating a blog the "story" of how Blogger deletes peoples blogs on blogspot is repeated to emphasize WP superiority. Don't get me wrong - there is nothing wrong with WP at all and there are lots of benefits to be had using a self hosted platform. The comments being one of them. lol.

However it is the "story" that is heard about blogger deleting blogs that is common. An accual occurance of this happening to a successful blogspot blog is very uncommon. I'm not saying it hasn't happened but I am saying that I have never heard of a single legitimate and successful blogspot blog ever being deleted. Ever.

I may well be one of the biggest practitioners of Blogger. I have been using them a long time. Have I had blogs deleted? Yes.

I once created 20 blogs all in 20 minutes on one account. All of them used the same keyword in the URL with a few slight differences. I basically claimed every possible URL variation that could be used for my keyword. I didn't want anyone else competing with me and by claiming all the best URL's I eliminated one of the competitions best means of competing. This is why people buy a domain like bob.com and then buy bob.info and bob.net and so on - so no one else can use them.

I posted content on 7 of the blogs on day one. The next day the other 13 had been deleted by Blogger.

Why? Because it was obvious that I was not creating 20 legit sites on one subject. I was in fact creating a little blog farm.

They never deleted the 7 that had content though. They flagged them and made me ask for a review. This meant I had to have legit content on them or risk losing them. Fortunately I always use legit content and the blogs were released back to me.

The only time Blogger has deleted blogs, to my knowledge has been when the blogs are obvious spam. If they are questionable you get flagged and get your day in court. If your site is legit they leave you alone.

They go out of their way to bend over backwards and not delete blogs. I report scraper sites to them all the time who have nothing but my stolen content on them and adsense. Blogger refuses to remove the scraper's site citing the fact that it isn't breaking the rules. They don't want to get in the middle of a copyright case - it's up to you to sue the scraper. They will only remove sites that outright promote hate and other illegal things or it has obvious spam on it and I mean obvious - machine generated keyword stuffed gibberish.

The last thing Blogger is going to do is to just up and delete legit blogs. If they did this we would be quoting actual blogs that had been deleted instead of just the "Story" of this happening.

This is not in their interest as Blogger is a huge advertisement for Adsense - the biggest recruiter Google has and Adsense/Adwords is what pays the bills upon Google Mountain. Every one who uses Blogger can't help but notice the Adsense element - you don't see this on Wordpress. They recruit a lot of adsense publishers because they offer the free blogspot platform.

How many people would use Blogger if they "really" started deleting legitimate blogs and the word got around - and it would get around in a hurry.

Google would be shooting themselves in the foot.

The fact is that this is now an "Urban Myth" and not a serious concern for legitimate bloggers.

As for Alan's comments I went back and checked. Too funny... most of the few legit comments turned out to be spammers on several of the posts I looked at. Probably time to send him flowers and let him rest in peace.

Thanks Jason.

Grizzly Brears said...

Frank,

True, the spammers are a pain in the ass. They cause new flagging systems to be incorporated and this can't help but snare a lot of legit blogs as well. An annoyance but something we have to live with.

You probably have Alan subscribed to your site now! He'll be studying how to do it right next time. lol

Lin Burress said...

Wow Grizz! You are truly a Rock em-Sock em kinda blogger, and I love it! Nothing like screenshots to prove the b.s. artists out there. Thanks for taking the time to write this awesome post! :)

Fiar said...

@Daniel. I'm going to suggest you set that particular blog aside for a while. Go ahead and continue to post on it if it pleases you, but it's not likely to actually earn income. By all means, KEEP THE SITE. Whether because you get a personal satisfaction from it, or because it may prove useful in the future.

Now, I want you to think of products and services that people search for on the internet. This will be where you need to focus your business.

See, the problem with the MMO market, is that people get the wrong idea. They see Problogger blogging about making money blogging, and think that is the way to go. But that's like taking a course on making money selling real estate, then trying to start a business teaching people to sell real estate. Your supposed to go and actually sell real estate. Not talk about how to do it.

You want to focus on something people buy or do online. Not chase other bloggers who won't buy your affiliates, because you're not Problogger.

I have no idea about this keyword, but Roofing. Would be an example. People pay a lot of money to have their roof fixed. I don't know what the search traffic online is like, and I don't know how it pays out. I also don't know how competitive that market is.

You need to do some research on that. Perhaps something like "South Florida Roofing" would have just the right mix of low competition, good search volume, and good advertiser payout.

I have a political humor site, one in a subniche of the fashion industry, and one relating to a service homeowners require.

Politics is highly competitive. One of the main things people look for on the internet is funny stuff, and news.

People shop for fashion items, and search for information on things they need to maintain their home.

Do you see how it works?

SeanFu said...

@Grizz

I know all about the keywords and how important they are, and I have no doubt Darren's using some popular keywords and coming up at the top of the list for those. I was just saying that I wasn't looking for a blog to read at the time, I found his site because I was looking for something else. Since I do know that there is huge relevance in having a domain name containing keywords it's always made me wonder if Darren would be where he's at without that particular domain name. Sure having keywords in your domain name isn't everything, it's still pretty important imo.

I've been building sites for about 10 years now (static sites, not CMS, still learning the ropes for those) and I wish I knew what I did today about how important short and to the point domain names can be.

On a sidenote, last night I made a nice purchase on another domain name, it's short, to the point, and I'm surprised it wasn't eaten up by now. I was looking over 2007 expired domain lists and I was like "how the **** was that not taken?". Ya, I'm sorta pleased with myself lol. Sorta off topic, though *pats self on back*. :)

Anonymous said...

Hey guys,

Noob question: Do you guys write your own posts or use PLR articles. If you use PLR, do you know any legit free sites?

Martin said...

Hi Griz,good post! I have a question a little off topic though. (It's hard to reach you any other way) I've been using what I learned here on this site and made a blog concerning a particular band that is soon to release a new album. Anyway, its ranking high in google on some of my keywords, however it seems to disappear from the search results on a weekly basis and has been doing this for 4 weeks now. Tuesday wednesday and thursday it's gone Friday its back just like before until monday then it disappears again. Do you have any idea what might be going on?

Simonne said...

Hey Griz,

Thank you for mentioning our blog and our work. It means a lot to Diana and myself.

Regarding "Grizzly's Adsense Secrets #1", if you want, we can organize a brainstorming to come up with proper ideas so you'd never have to work again. I suppose you could build in a code which enables you to get access to readers' PayPal account, pretty much like Yahoo Search Marketing does if you open a pre-paid account for PPC advertising: you pay with your own hand the first $30, then you are automatically billed each time your account gets lower than 3-4 days worth of advertising.

Vic said...

Grizz I wonder if this is John Chow's famous website he would built because if you look at his website he has tons of guest post from this supposed Alan Johnson and he also got tons of guest post on A-listers website after that post I would be money this is a scam by John Chow it would fit big time I love how he keeps building his feed count it is just laughable.

George said...

I just wanted to say Hi. I've read your posts from the beginning up to now. It took a long time, but it's a lot of good information. I have pages of notes from what I've read. Thanks for giving back to the community. Can't wait to read future posts.

stan said...

Hi Grizzly,
I have been reading your blog for quite sometime. Before I started reading your fabulous posts, I was always under the impression that all the sites and blogs promising get rich quick offers are bogus. I am glad I stumbled on your blog and really learning and enjoying at the same time.

question:
what is your impression or experience with the follosing;
1. wealthy associates
2. profit lance
3. raamakant
4. ewen chia
5. stone evans

the last 3 sends me ton of email every week. The top two always comeup with good reviews.

I want to hear from you.

thanks a lot. God bless you.

Mambo said...

I didn't know about the JC challenge to duplicate his success with a new site.

How 'bout a bunch of us go over there and start bugging him about its progress? ...(evil JC face here)

Mambo

yc said...

ewen chia is a top scammer. Same shit packaged in different ways.

Venkat said...

Hi Griz,

Whatever you say about starting this blog as a potential adsense blog, I think this blog is a result of your inherent attitude of helping people. Why would you give the information about http://www.quirk.biz/searchstatus/ for a negative comment. Anyhow, very helpful tool. I use to leave comments on each and every blog i visit, thinking that i am getting a link...newbie problem.

Thank you.

Stephan Miller said...

I just put my feed in the Feed Analysis thing. The orange feed part was way below the traffic, never touched it once. You are right about subscribers though. I got all wrapped in blogging and now I am coming back to my senses. There is some valuable stuff I learned while investigating blogging that I can count on a couple of hands, mainly about Wordpress. The worthless stuff I am throwing away will fill a few construction dumpsters. But I do like the people. That's one part I hid form before. But the clicking, subscriber fishing and a bunch of other stuff are going in the dumpster.

Markk said...

Great piece of detective work about the Alan guy. He's too good to believe. "Elementary, Mr Watson," as Mr Sherlock Holmes (aka Grizzly Brears) would say. Lol. In fact, there are a great number of these MMO types hanging out there. They are quite easy to spot.

Seriously, it's not just the information that you dish out which is always top notch. Your writing style is a pleasure to read,and not many bloggers can write that way.

Oh yes, I bought a book called The Adsense Code about 3 years ago and I thought it was useful. I was very wet behind the ears that time. Today when I looked back, it was a waste of money. I had learned more by doing my own due diligence in the last two years rather than simply following the herd. No, I won't say I'm successful online, but I'm quite satisfied with what I'm doing. I got a life in the real world.

Jason said...

@ Grizz, fair enough. I will confess that I have never come across one whose own Blogspot blog has been deleted, just stories of a friend of a friend. As I said, I will be trying them out for a few smaller sites, nothing huge though as I have found you cannot sell Blogspot blogs for what a regular blog would fetch (I have tried) :)

PS - would be interested in hearing your thoughts on eBooks (that are sold), primarily internet marketing/make money ones. Perhaps an idea for a future post? :)

Elliott said...

To all:

I know Griz is swamped right now searching for salmon after hibernating this winter, so I would like to answer a couple of questions that have been asked.

As for ebooks - save your money. I have read lots of them and there are very few worth buying. Most of them will either be so full of affiliate links to products that you really don't need, or repeating useless information about a method that used to work a few years ago.

About domain names - You can find some great ones on auction at GoDaddy for $5. The issue with some of these, and you have to be really careful about them, is that most, and I say most, of them have been Google banned. There are the rare occassions when you can find a good domain name with page rank. I have found several this way, but it takes time.

Why do most of those sites not get renewed? They have been used by blackhatters and by scraper sites that Google found and banned the domain name.

Try freshdrop.net for a great tool that will show the most recent expiring and fire sale domain names from tdnam. It also shows page rank, if that page rank is fake (artificially driven - think google banned), age and lots more.

As for keywords and starting blogging - This is a huge topic that could take a whole blog to write about (Think Court, Vic and Griz). One of the best things to do if you are starting out and trying to make money online is to not worry about making money at first. You really need to focus on writing content, getting links and improving your traffic. Especially with a new blog.

Once you have a couple of wordpress blogs, or blogger blogs loaded up with some good content, then look at monetizing them.

Before anyone jumps on me, let me also say that you can find a good affiliate product or service, research it and create a blogger blog or Squidoo lens or Hub page around it and promote it. If the keywords you are targeting are long enough, then you will bring some traffic from the search engines.

Someone asked about PLR articles, etc. - They are ok, however you MUST rewrite them so that you avoid the duplicate content penalty in Google. The best way is to visit ezinearticles.com or goarticles.com and search for your keyword.

Find a couple of articles, read them, copy out some of the information from them and rewrite them in your own words.

Content generators usually suck. Sorry about that, but I have never found a content generator that writes anything worth reading. There are some that will use synonyms but they take a lot to set up.

I think that answered some of the questions, and if you need anything, please visit me and let me know through my contact form at blogexplosion.net

Hope I helped ya out some Griz!

WebDiggin said...

Phew. A lot of content in the post itself, and a lot more to think about in the comments. Didn't realize how John Chow came to fame.

Heard about you from Mirjam's blog, http://www.memyselfandiblog.com/ and I'll have to have a better look around. Thanks for sharing your insights.

Anthony said...

This comment isn't really related to your post, but I wanted to comment anyway. :)

Im just so glad that after 3 months of blogging, I finally realized that all this ''make money blogging'' crap is pretty god damn useless.

The advice that this blog gives, the advice of the other blogs you let us know about and actually getting out there and trying things has helped me develop my new projects and develop them well. I'm ranking well for a lot of good keywords now, my google traffic is fantastic and I'm actually starting to make money with adsense.

Pffff, and all these A-list dickheads told me that adsense was dead? To many people believe what the A-list money grabbing idiots tell you. Fools.

Irene said...

What? No new tome this week? I just brewed a pot of coffee and was going to sit down and unwind by reading one of your delightfully detailed, informative and entertaining posts while waiting for my 24lb turkey to cook (I figured the timing was perfect - one paragraph read per every ounce of turkey cooked.)

But alas, nothing new.

I spent the morning building some squidoo pages and my brain is fried.

Griz - how do you handle all them words? Are you the Word Whisperer?

I can't corral mine. They keep getting away and I am left with a paltry few dull phrases.

They just hate being stuffed into keyword filled anchor tags and phrases. Their objection? They want to be original - and clever. I keep telling them that's not searchable - and then they pout - and hide.

How, how, how will I ever write my first "article?" A paragraph of text kills me.

Ow. That's all the words I have left. Ow.

Terry said...

Quick note to anyone left not in the Honest Way Forum - I've slammed the doors shut and hopefully caught a few spammer's fingers in the process!

Today I think I must have deleted about 30 new spam accounts that got created during the day and I don't have tome to sit there monitoring it all day. These pain in the asses cost me PR with their linking to bad neighbourhoods, so the only way to stop them is to disable new registrations to the forum.

If anyone else wants to legitimately join up - its by invitation only via email. Griz has the details if you need to contact me.

Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh, but there is no nice way of dealing with spammers. "Wall" and "firing squad" spring to mind...

Frank C said...

I did a short investigation today and I found this RSS gaming is pretty common with the Chow Crowd. I found 3 blogs that were sporting obvious fake feed counts just by looking at some of the commenters blogs linked from Chow's blog. Pretty sad stuff.

Guido said...

Hi Grizzly

Great post. I stopped by here coming from a Hub about IM from Lissie. She says that you are one of a few she trust.

After I read the post I can understand why.

There are really very few guy's out there who offer REAL value to a visitor.

Overall the net is full of crap and the bad part is that all the noobs who start to surf around looking for MMO will get that 99% crap served hot.

I only know a handful of good programs such as the Wealthy Affiliates where I'm a member at, and guy's like Heflin SEO20/20 (a competitor of yours?), one of my mentors Travis Sago and some other folks from WA and the Warrior Forum.

You are now just added to my list.

I follow those examples and try to provide real value, but have sometimes the impression that people like to get scammed, rather then to read some good stuff which is less exiting but the real thing.

Will come back.

G.

aravind said...

Hi Griz,
How r u man............I'm not able to participate in the forum discussions actively as i have my sem end exams coming by.........i have to prepare for that......
I'll be back in a couple of weeks...........hope u don't forget me..............
Please don't remove me from the forum...........as i'm making plans for some new blogs and i need ur help for that...........

Small Business said...

Grizz,

I am a silent reader of your posts, since, hmm I don't remember. But I just spent a day long to read your post. I didn't subsribe (I haven't planned yet). I have tens of Qs i would to ask to you, but I knew you're buzy. For the time being I'll keep watching on every inch you move (while you're watching the "so-called Cow" lol kidding).

Thanks for this fooling "stunning graphic" blog. lolz....

I'll be here again tomorrow....

Lie

Baitcasting Reels said...

I really wish I had happened across this page 3 years ago when I was starting out on this make money online adventure. I wasted money with both Joel Comm and John Chow. About the only positive thing I got from them was a tax deduction. Now, I refer anyone that has questions about this industry to this page, as it's one of the VERY few that tell it like it really is...

-Allen

Dave Starr said...

I agree with everything you said re John. I am impressed by your research efforts as well. Good show.

One thing it seems impossible to get new MMO types to do, inspite of the publicly available material, is to look at6 where many A=List bloggers actually earn their income from.

John Chow earns mosto fhis income fromk his own advertising network and miss very successful tech review site, which is a heavily trafficed affiliate site ... John sells tech gadets for a living, in other words and his blog is essentially a toy.

Look at darren Rowse, a guy diametically opposite to JC in many ways. Darren was famous as one of the first bloggers aknowledged to earn a 'six figure' income. However, he doesn't earn it from his flagship "ProBlogger". he is a salried executive employee of a corporation (B5 Blog Network)whose main function in life is burning through venture capital ... shades of the Dot com bust. Darren also makes almost all his web site monty from his digital photography blog ...which is a huge Amazon )and other camera stores) affiliate producer.

Bo5h these guys seem to have told the truth about their sources of income, both do _Not_ make most of their money from blogging, and yet people still do not bother to read the facts. *sigh*

The real money online is either selling your own actual product or being an affiliate, same as it always was since the first affiliates back in '96 or '97 or so.

Jim's Words Music and Science said...

It is going to take me a while to absorb just this one post, let alone your blog as a whole, but I appreciate the effort you have gone to! Best wishes,

Jim

(my blogger ID points to one of my two main blogs. The other is http://greenchemistry.wordpress.com/)

Meka said...

I was reading your post and thought it was an inspiration to people trying to earn an income through blogging but not going about it like the "chow" guy. You have a very good perspective and it gave me some encouragement. Now I have questions.

Post a Comment

Project Payday - A Legit Method to Make Money at Home

I have included Project Payday on my blog for all of my readers who write in asking if there are any legit online programs that they can use to make some quick money. Project Payday is not a get rich quick scheme - it is more like a work at home job. You don't need a blog or website as it involves getting paid to try out trial offers from online advertisers. There is work to this but you can realistically earn a couple of hundred dollars a day if you want to put in the effort.

I have written several posts about this and suggest you start with this one. Project Payday

Unfortunately Project Payday is only available to American users at this time. Their sister program is still available to users in the US, Canada, UK and Australia. (free to join as well) Affiliate Income Partners

CashCrate is another similar program (you get paid to take trial offers for products, services or completing online surveys etc.) Cashcrate does accept people world wide and they have a decent selection for Canadian and UK residents. If you are American then you will benefit the most as you have the most offers to choose from. Btw - it's free to join.

For comparative purposes the stats below reflect my actual earnings with Cashcrate.

A Little Heart to Heart

If you have made it this far down the page then I assume you might just be serious about learning how to make a real sustainable living online - as opposed to the thousands of visitors I see daily looking for that "get rich quick" miracle that really doesn't happen without a winning lottery ticket.

You have probably figured out by now that you aren't going to find the answer in a $47 ebook or by following your favorite twit on twitter. The fact is many of you are still wondering how this plain free hosted Blogger blog dominates the rankings on the search engines - right? Did you find this site by typing in "make money online" in Google?

If you did then you are halfway to learning the secret to making money online - you need targeted traffic from the search engines (for any niche you pick) and once you have that, you can sell them what they are looking for. Sounds simple and on paper it is - actually dominating the search engines is the hard part. It takes time and you do need to understand keywords and anchor text links. You can spend time on this site and sift through my posts to learn this or you can do yourself a favor and pony up one buck and test drive Court's Keyword Academy Crash Course for a month and learn just why I rank number 1 in the search engines.

This isn't another waste of money or time - just an honest answer for the few of you willing to do the work and who really do want to make a long term sustainable living online. Read my blog from back to front or try a more focused approach with Court - either way you will not be disappointed.

Cheers

Griz

How to Contact Me

If you need help with anything discussed in these pages don't be afraid to email me with your questions. I won't spam you and I will answer you directly or in a future post. I will never share your email.Period.

You can send your questions to Grizzly

Update - March 2009

Please note that I am getting more email than I can keep up with so if you need an answer fast please use the comments section. You will receive an answer by me or one of my readers in short order. Thanks. Griz

Contact Grizzly if you would like to advertise on this blog.

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