Sunday, December 2, 2007

The Death of Do-Follow

Over the past few days Blogger has changed it's comment form to exclude links pointing back to the commenter's site. There was no announcement made and once again Google has caused people to scream and flail. Google owns Blogger if you are wondering what the connection is.

The gist of it is only links to other Blogger blogs will be displayed in the comments. If you have a blog elsewhere you can still leave a comment but there won't be an outgoing link to your site.



People using Blogger are understandably irate as this just adds one more reason why others won't bother commenting on Blogger blogs. Conspiracy talk has already begun and cites this as an attempt by Google to undermine all the other Blogging Platforms by removing all outgoing Blogspot links and the PR associated with them.

It should be mentioned that you can still get an indirect link by setting up a Blogger account and listing your other blogs in your profile. When you leave a comment on a Blogger blog the reader would have to follow your link on the comment back to your profile and then access your blog from there.

I want to discuss the ramifications of this but for those interested in a good summation of what has been done see Blogger.com No Longer Allows Links to Non-Blogger Sites in Comments by Windyridge. Read this post and then come back and listen to my take on this - it concerns everyone that is currently using do-follow.

What is Google up to now?

Each time Google acts there is swift condemnation from the blogging world. The general theory is that Google is a monopoly and everything they do is centered around eliminating competition - competing advertisers in relation to the crack down on paid links and now we will hear how they are trying to take down other blogging platforms like wordpress.

If you are one of the people who subscribe to this view then please hear me out.

If Google's prime objective was to control all advertising on the net they could do it overnight. If they wanted to end all the other blog platforms online they could wipe them out in the blink of an eye. How?

Think on this for a bit. Google controls most of the traffic on the net. They are just one search engine among many and yet most people choose to use them when searching for something. Google can list whoever they want for whatever reason they want and if you don't like the results they give you then you are free to use another search engine. You can not call in the District Attorney or the Attorney General and ask that Google be sued for violating anti trust because they didn't index your blog or because they took away your PR. The legal minds would quickly inform you that you can use a competing service if you aren't happy with Google.

The point is that they are NOT a monopoly - there are lots of competing search engines. What they are is successful and all because people CHOOSE to use them and not because people HAVE to use them.

Now for the real shocker - Google could simply decide that only Blogspot blogs will be listed in their index. They could also decide that any site displaying any advertising that they don't own or control will be dropped from their index as well. They haven't done this but they could and there would be nothing wrong with this.

Google's index is no different than you or I publishing a list. Take a popular site like 45n5.com which lists the top 100 "make money online" blogs according to Mark the owner. Now for some reason, in spite of several requests to include me in the listings I have never heard back from the site and haven't been added. Do I have the right to sue because I haven't been added to the Top 100 index? No. It's Mark's index and he can do what he wants with it. (But if he were to add me and hopefully he has a sense of humor, I would be overjoyed to remove the no-follow on my link - hehe maybe blackmail will get me in.)

The point is Google can do everything people are accusing them of if they wanted to do what they are accused of and they could do it instantly without all this playing around. They haven't though and that's because they aren't trying to eliminate advertising competition or other blogging platforms. The only competition they would like to eliminate is other search engines and they are doing this by being the "BEST" search engine.

It is ironic that people have been claiming that Google is no longer "valid" since the latest slap reduced so many high PR sites to ashes. Do they really think this invalidates Google? Google eliminated one of the top avenues that people were using to artificially inflate their PR - people were buying PR from sites openly selling it. Does stopping this practice make them less valid? Would you rather see a site listed on top of the serp's because it was able to buy the most reviews on the net or would you prefer to see the site that has the most authentic PR?

The end result is that Google only takes action in order to make their search results more valid. Getting rid of a portion of the paid links problem increased their validity, it did not diminish it.

Google and the The Do Follow Movement


When I first heard about the Do Follow movement my immediate reaction was that this won't end well for the people using it. Like paid links nobody stopped to think about Google's reaction to it. If you depend on Google for your traffic then you really should think about Google before proceeding down one path or another.

So, how do you think Google feels about Do-Follow?

Let's ask what is the point of Do-Follow?

If you are a blogger then you have convinced yourself that this is a legitimate way of inducing comments from your readers. More people will comment if you offer them a link that passes PR back to the commenter's page.

Do I really need to tell you how Google sees this?

This is simply another way to game the search engine. Before you protest just think of how many sites publish lists of Do-Follow blogs with high PR. What are people being told to do? If you want to increase your page rank then leave comments on all these high PR blogs. Does this allow a blog with poor quality content to inflate it's PR? You bet it does. If you are using Do-Follow then you are still selling PR but instead of money you are doing it in return for readership and comment content.

It doesn't matter if you don't think there is anything wrong with what you're doing. In fact Google doesn't care what your reasons are because you are ultimately allowing others to game the serp's even if your reasons are pure and unselfish.

Like paid links the people who will be penalized will be the ones allowing the links - not the ones receiving the links.

I mentioned a penalty but I am only guessing. It seems to me that Google is sending a clear message in regards to removing links from the Blogger comments. If anything it probably means that comment links will or are now being ignored by Google although I have no proof. It makes sense for them to follow this path though. What possible reason could allowing comment links help Google in ranking sites? Almost none that I can see. They know that all these links were not created by the PR owner and that the owner is passing on PR indiscriminately. Why should they accept the link as valid?

Just a hunch but I think comment links play an important role in Google's algorithm.

Google's latest move is puzzling because they could simply decide to ignore these types of links without anybody even knowing so why the change to Blogger. It seems obvious that the changes were made to stop people from removing the no-follow tag on Blogger comments. All Blogger blogs are automatically no-followed and wouldn't pass PR normally and Google would have no reason to change the linking structure. That they are eliminating links to the outside altogether has to mean it's the only way to stop do-follow links. This sends the message that they don't like do-follow or at least that is how I am reading it.

The thing is that if do-follow is causing them concern why not just ignore the links on comments all together? Why bother sending a message trying to get everyone to eliminate the do-follow links?

I am totally guessing but is it possible that Google uses the amount of comments a blog gets (by counting links) to help rank sites on it's index? It certainly would be a somewhat relevant factor in deciding which sites are seen as an authority. This certainly isn't conclusive but in general the more authoritative sites do tend to get the most comments.

As I said, just a guess but it would explain why Google can't ignore the links and why they want no-follow used. If they have been using this metric in the algorithm then you can see how do-follow would dramatically skewer the rankings.

So why not tell everybody they use comments to aid their rankings? Because then we will all be spamming our own sites with comments.

I might be completely off here but it pays to wonder when Google starts making changes. My hypothesis may be wrong and there could be other reasons for these Blogger changes but I know that Google does not like the Do-Follow movement and you can be sure that they will have a plan to eliminate it. This alone should make you think about being involved in it.

Cheers,

Grizzly

27 comments:

steven wilson said...

Hi Griz
This is a most informative post on Google,and the do-follow movement.I knew that they made this change in the blogger comments section,but had not really looked it over.I think your post explains it very well.

I would rather a site I click on in the google search lead me to a site that got ranked there by content rather than by paid links.

I can see google's point on this,and understand why they are doing it.Once again thanks for such an informative post on this.

take care
Steven

Tomaz said...

Interesting. Let me try...

(posting this comment)

Yes, no way I can link back to my site!

And yes, you make very good points about the do-follow movement and how this is again something to try and game the search engines.

Grizzly Brears said...

Hi Steven,

Thanks for stopping in and BTW I really like what you've done with your sites - a nice new look.


Tomaz this does suck from a purely practical standpoint as I like to surf using comment links. Blogger has really thrown a kink into that practice. Please feel free to leave your url when visiting (and every one else as well). Not as handy but at least I can find you with a little cut and paste.

Thanks for testing this out Tomaz. Lol

Griz

Jasa said...

Somehow I kinda just noticed or is it new? I meant your PR7 :p

Anyways, you have a very interesting post here that compels me very much to write a post in reply. =.= Maybe I will. lol, will update you when I have it done :)

And I so agree with you on the practicalities of Google's actions. Just to reinstate that fact. ;)

Rudi said...

thanks for this post

kantor-online.blogspot.com

Matt L said...

Seems like that is a very key component of the usefulness of blogs for them to just take out - of course it's their platform, but a blog link witchhunt probably isn't the best way for them to spend their time...

Avalanche Internet Marketing

Windyridge said...

You make some valid points. Problem is the comment thing makes interactivity a thing of the past if you are outside Google Blogger. I couldn't follow my commenters back to their sites.Thanks for the mention.

Rod Templeton said...

I noticed that the opportunity to link back to my site was gone when I left a comment on a Blogger site yesterday.

The thing is, though, that it didn't deter me from leaving the comment, because that's ultimately what I was trying to do - contribute to a post, not puff up my own site.

It won't stop me from commenting on Blogger sites at all.

Grizzly Brears said...

Hey Jasa... Let me know about your post.

The PR7 thing must have been a temporary glitch as I haven't noticed it - Damn you had me excited for a minute.

Rudy... that was dangerously close to being seen as spam - try and contribute and no one will care if you throw in your link.

Hi Rod.

I must admit that I am like you - I comment when I want to for the sake of the article - never for a link. The links aren't really worth much anyway, in my case they boost my ranking for the term "Grizzly" as my name is always the anchor text. This does little for my PR needless to say.

In truth I think a lot of bloggers are like us and will comment regardless.

Griz

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Terry said...

To be honest, I never used the link box in blogger blog comments anyway - as has already been said, it's commenting for the sake of commenting rather than trying to blag a next-to-useless link.

Now self-hosted wordpress blogs are a little different.

I notice that when I go to post comments in those, my url seems to be automatically added to the box anyway. Strange since most are nofollow by default anyway!

(º¿º)

Terry

Grizzly Brears said...

Not sure if this is just a coincidence but if you notice the comments and my replies are out of sync above it's because my email notices aren't working properly.

Blogger sends a note to tell me a comment has been posted but it has suddenly started missing some.

I wasn't ignoring the comments I missed acknowledging - just found them now.

Matt and Windyridge both touch on the pain in the ass factor. I like tracking people down with comment links - it's quick above all.

... WR your welcome - it is a good article.

Hey Terry,

The nice thing about wordpress is the fact you can zip around the blogverse pretty quick using comments. I see far more new sites this way than using any social network.

Sorry about the out of 'orderness' of these comments folks.

Griz.

Shinchi said...

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ketahuan.blogspot.com

Monika @ The Writers Manifesto said...

Hey Griz

After reading Terry's post today and now yours I have gone back to my own blog and got rid of the dofollow.

That's it for me I'm outta here.

Grizzly Brears said...

Hi Monika,

I just left you a comment on SU about this but I will say it again here. You have a loyal readership and they will continue to comment with or without the do-follow. I know I will.

Griz

Telling It Like It Is said...

Hi Grizzly,

Like several other bloggers have mentioned, I comment on blogs that interest me. Period. I've heard that some people only seek out and comment on blogs with the higher PR rankings, well that's nuts in my opinion.

I'm in the process of moving to a wordpress blog. I'm just fed up with not having any control over what happens with my own blog. I too didn't receive any email notices of comments and it took me several hours before I realized there were comments waiting for moderation.

Then Google changes the comment layout? No thanks, I'm done.

Thank you for writing this post in such a way as someone (like me) could understand.

Grizzly Brears said...

Hi Lin,

Thanks for the comment and I can't blame you for jumping ship. I suspect a large exodus has already started.

Good luck with wordpress.

Griz.

Karen Zara said...

Hey Grizzly, guess what? I do have a Blogger account, ohohohoho! Granted, that blog belongs to an entirely different niche, but at least I won't be totally beaten by that new comment rule. ;-)

You know that I won't be following your advice (for the time being). But I'm able to recognise a great post when I find one, and your article is very well-written and informative. I like thought-provoking stuff, no matter if I agree with it or not. And your post got me thinking about several things (some not necessarily related to Google). Maybe this will result in some new blogging ideas.

I'll be sending some additional social media love your way. :-)

Grizzly Brears said...

Always nice hearing from you Karen and I have the utmost respect for your decisions.

As I readily admit in the article I am purely speculating on what I think will be coming down the road - as a Blogger who makes money using Google I need to pay attention and do a little "what-if"ing from time to time.

Those who don't depend on Google have every right to dismiss idle chatter as Googlenoia - it is something that is of little concern to them and why should it be.

There are no right answers for issues like these - just appropriate responses dependent upon one's purpose for blogging.

Thanks so much for stopping in Karen.

Griz

Anonymous said...

Using 'a' tags to create links appears to work.

Albuquerque NM Real Estate said...

This is really an interesting thread about Google. I was surprised when I first noticed that I couldn't leave a comment with a link back the old way. But in the new way you really still can. You just use an OpenId as I have here and you can still link up your site. I found your statement regarding the number of comments affecting your placement in the SERP right on. I have been seeing this in my results. - Ashley

Frugal guy said...

It's been back a while. The ability to link where you like again.

On my blog I've changed the template, removing the "nofollow" attribute, but I don't advertise it on my site as I don't want to attract comment spam.

Grizzly Brears said...

Yes, Google about-faced after the uproar they caused. Sorry I haven't had the chance to update this development suffice to say that the comment links are back to what they were previously.

nathanburrblair said...

Forgive my ignorance, but when you say that the commenting is back to what it was before, do you mean that bloggers not using blogspot can now comment on my blog and it will show a follow link?
I'm new to the whole do or don't follow thing, so I'm trying to learn what I should do on my own blog. I don't want to deter people from commenting, but I don't want spam either.

Grizzly Brears said...

Hi Nathan,

It means that others can leave their link in your comments again - the links are no-follow by default which means that no PR (pagerank) will pass through but the link will work as far as sending visitors through.

Jimy Wong said...

We need to do something about Google. It just same as Microsoft monopoly style. Really hate it. Do we really need PR?

tea party ideas said...

I personally am getting tired of Google controlling the internet. They were a great search engine at first but now they spend too much time engineering it so that sites that advertise with them, use their software, and make them money get preferential treatment in searches.
The internet is supposed to belong to the people, not to Google!

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